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	<title>Comments on: Did Plainclothes Officers Really Kidnap A Man In Broad Daylight In Front Of Rolling Cameras? [UPDATE]</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/</link>
	<description>A Dollop of China</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:42:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RhZ</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216414</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RhZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t know that, Jonathan.  And even if you are right in this particular case, there are many other cases where you are flat wrong.

I can see you don&#039;t like knee-jerk redditors, but your position here is just wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t know that, Jonathan.  And even if you are right in this particular case, there are many other cases where you are flat wrong.</p>
<p>I can see you don&#8217;t like knee-jerk redditors, but your position here is just wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope this is not the bangbus...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope this is not the bangbus&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RhZ</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RhZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MAC- the problem is that while you are right that its likely he wasn&#039;t hurt, its also very possible that he could be beaten badly or tortured or even disappeared for weeks. You say that&#039;s not likely, but its on the freaking menu.  

And if that happened, do you think anyone would ever know?  The answer of course is we would never know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MAC- the problem is that while you are right that its likely he wasn&#8217;t hurt, its also very possible that he could be beaten badly or tortured or even disappeared for weeks. You say that&#8217;s not likely, but its on the freaking menu.  </p>
<p>And if that happened, do you think anyone would ever know?  The answer of course is we would never know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Alpart</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216278</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Alpart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 00:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hahaha, OK, reality check!

Was this guy thrown into a labor camp?

...

NO!!!

Why is it that people like you who are obviously sooooooo anti-censorship and pro freedom of speech whip out the &quot;wumao&quot; card at anyone who has an opinion, however reasonable, that doesn&#039;t follow the party line of China is an absolute evil empire?

Why am I asking anyway?  You&#039;re probably CIA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahaha, OK, reality check!</p>
<p>Was this guy thrown into a labor camp?</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>NO!!!</p>
<p>Why is it that people like you who are obviously sooooooo anti-censorship and pro freedom of speech whip out the &#8220;wumao&#8221; card at anyone who has an opinion, however reasonable, that doesn&#8217;t follow the party line of China is an absolute evil empire?</p>
<p>Why am I asking anyway?  You&#8217;re probably CIA.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MAC</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MAC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually it does sound pretty far-fetched that the guy would be thrown into a labor camp for something like this in today&#039;s China. I think anyone who actually follows how the authorities handle people could probably guess that he would be hustled off to be grilled for a while and kicked loose with a stern warning to not harm the country&#039;s interests by mouthing off to foreign devils. People who honestly think this guy was likely to be tossed in a camp probably also think that you can&#039;t use the word &quot;democracy&quot; on the Chinese internet. Let&#039;s get real. China is horrible, but we must have a more nuanced view of precisely how it is horrible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually it does sound pretty far-fetched that the guy would be thrown into a labor camp for something like this in today&#8217;s China. I think anyone who actually follows how the authorities handle people could probably guess that he would be hustled off to be grilled for a while and kicked loose with a stern warning to not harm the country&#8217;s interests by mouthing off to foreign devils. People who honestly think this guy was likely to be tossed in a camp probably also think that you can&#8217;t use the word &#8220;democracy&#8221; on the Chinese internet. Let&#8217;s get real. China is horrible, but we must have a more nuanced view of precisely how it is horrible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chairman Mao's ever virile corpse.</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chairman Mao's ever virile corpse.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For your trouble comrade Wu Mao has been deposited in your account, congratulations you are 399 more posts away from a hand job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For your trouble comrade Wu Mao has been deposited in your account, congratulations you are 399 more posts away from a hand job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Alpart</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216261</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Alpart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Hey, that guy over there is a rapist.&quot;

&quot;What?  How do you know?&quot;

&quot;Everyone says he raped Cindy.&quot;

&quot;Well, I just checked, and that&#039;s not true.&quot;

&quot;Oh, well, everyone knows he raped Cathy.&quot;

&quot;How do you know that?&quot;

&quot;Because he&#039;s obviously a rapist.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hey, that guy over there is a rapist.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;What?  How do you know?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Everyone says he raped Cindy.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, I just checked, and that&#8217;s not true.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh, well, everyone knows he raped Cathy.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;How do you know that?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Because he&#8217;s obviously a rapist.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RhZ</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216249</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RhZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 09:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dag, that&#039;s cold.  But the government said they would stop harvesting organs, not to say they ever did in the first place, mind you. So everything is ok now!

Not that it ever wasn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dag, that&#8217;s cold.  But the government said they would stop harvesting organs, not to say they ever did in the first place, mind you. So everything is ok now!</p>
<p>Not that it ever wasn&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: terroir</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[terroir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 07:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a tactic it is perhaps very effective to all the bystanders at the scene, but this isn&#039;t ever going to make the news or internet in China and be seen by locals.

This was seen on German TV, not in China.  Even Anthony had translate this from &quot;Das News&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a tactic it is perhaps very effective to all the bystanders at the scene, but this isn&#8217;t ever going to make the news or internet in China and be seen by locals.</p>
<p>This was seen on German TV, not in China.  Even Anthony had translate this from &#8220;Das News&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chackie Jan</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216244</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chackie Jan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 06:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Too whiney. Let&#039;s face it, even when reddit-users get carried away like in this case, ask yourself; does it really sound that far-fetched? Perhaps it says more that such exaggerations sound believable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too whiney. Let&#8217;s face it, even when reddit-users get carried away like in this case, ask yourself; does it really sound that far-fetched? Perhaps it says more that such exaggerations sound believable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RhZ</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RhZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 06:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Anthony as a media person you do need to be suspicious of being fooled, but in general this incident leaves me totally unsurprised. The government has become consistently more and more brutal and overt over the past 3-5 years.  

What I think is important to recognize is that this is not the central party secret police.  They exist and hand out brutal punishment, no doubt. They disappear people and torture them and really whatever the fuck they feel like doing. I mean, who is going to stop them?

However, these are local forces. They can do this stuff because they are empowered by what they see around them.  Everyone else is doing it, so we can too! However this is not really the most common task they carry out, in my estimation.  So you might ask yourself, how detailed and specific are the rules about what and how the police can or should do. And even if you had nice clear rules, what&#039;s the chance those men knew and obeyed them?  Answer, not bloody likely.

I mean, the local thugs beat that actor, Bale, with a videocamera running a year or so ago, angering Shaun Rein.  You think they know from PR?

Also, I agree with the above comment from Little larry that they want us to know, they want people to be afraid. So they won&#039;t hide these tactics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Anthony as a media person you do need to be suspicious of being fooled, but in general this incident leaves me totally unsurprised. The government has become consistently more and more brutal and overt over the past 3-5 years.  </p>
<p>What I think is important to recognize is that this is not the central party secret police.  They exist and hand out brutal punishment, no doubt. They disappear people and torture them and really whatever the fuck they feel like doing. I mean, who is going to stop them?</p>
<p>However, these are local forces. They can do this stuff because they are empowered by what they see around them.  Everyone else is doing it, so we can too! However this is not really the most common task they carry out, in my estimation.  So you might ask yourself, how detailed and specific are the rules about what and how the police can or should do. And even if you had nice clear rules, what&#8217;s the chance those men knew and obeyed them?  Answer, not bloody likely.</p>
<p>I mean, the local thugs beat that actor, Bale, with a videocamera running a year or so ago, angering Shaun Rein.  You think they know from PR?</p>
<p>Also, I agree with the above comment from Little larry that they want us to know, they want people to be afraid. So they won&#8217;t hide these tactics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: terroir</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[terroir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 04:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have no idea what everyone is talking about.  The police officer dressed in a police uniform stepped in front of the camera and blocked it with his hand.

Obvious there is nothing to see here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea what everyone is talking about.  The police officer dressed in a police uniform stepped in front of the camera and blocked it with his hand.</p>
<p>Obvious there is nothing to see here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Alpart</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Alpart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found this story on reddit, and immediately people were speculating that he would be sent to a laogai (labor reform camp), and then people started doing the usual reddit thing, that&#039;s right; 1984 quotes.  I asked how posters could possibly know this guy would be sent to a labor camp, and people responded to me not only like I was ignorant, but that it&#039;s common knowledge that China is just &quot;that bad.&quot;  Fortunately I wasn&#039;t called an 五毛党 like usual in these situations.

A few hours later it was revealed that that same news agency that filmed his capture was reporting he was released hours later.

It is true that China&#039;s PR is awful, but I don&#039;t think all the fault lies with them.  I&#039;d say Americans too are all too eager to jump on this bandwagon of China being an all-encompassing police state, as evidenced with how they just rolled with this story.  I have a lot of speculation as to why this is the case, but I don&#039;t want to get into it here.  I may blog about it later, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this story on reddit, and immediately people were speculating that he would be sent to a laogai (labor reform camp), and then people started doing the usual reddit thing, that&#8217;s right; 1984 quotes.  I asked how posters could possibly know this guy would be sent to a labor camp, and people responded to me not only like I was ignorant, but that it&#8217;s common knowledge that China is just &#8220;that bad.&#8221;  Fortunately I wasn&#8217;t called an 五毛党 like usual in these situations.</p>
<p>A few hours later it was revealed that that same news agency that filmed his capture was reporting he was released hours later.</p>
<p>It is true that China&#8217;s PR is awful, but I don&#8217;t think all the fault lies with them.  I&#8217;d say Americans too are all too eager to jump on this bandwagon of China being an all-encompassing police state, as evidenced with how they just rolled with this story.  I have a lot of speculation as to why this is the case, but I don&#8217;t want to get into it here.  I may blog about it later, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hannah</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hannah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who is this a reminder to? No one doubts that China is an authoritarian police state etc. etc. China indeed does have a constitution -- a very extensively written one -- that &quot;guarantees and protects the human rights of its citizens&quot; (article 33 I think). So reporting  and discussion like this is necessary for forcing close the gap between the perceived and the reality (constitutional governance vs. constitutional toilet paper). Everyone hopes this guy gets out free, but just hoping is a passive way of ensuring that nothing will change until someone else takes the first step for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is this a reminder to? No one doubts that China is an authoritarian police state etc. etc. China indeed does have a constitution &#8212; a very extensively written one &#8212; that &#8220;guarantees and protects the human rights of its citizens&#8221; (article 33 I think). So reporting  and discussion like this is necessary for forcing close the gap between the perceived and the reality (constitutional governance vs. constitutional toilet paper). Everyone hopes this guy gets out free, but just hoping is a passive way of ensuring that nothing will change until someone else takes the first step for you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hannah</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/did-plainclothes-officers-really-kidnap-a-man-in-broad-daylight-in-front-of-rolling-cameras/#comment-216226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hannah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=9205#comment-216226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He&#039;ll be lucky if he doesn&#039;t end up in a concentration camp with his organs for sale.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;ll be lucky if he doesn&#8217;t end up in a concentration camp with his organs for sale.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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