I’m not making a false equivalency. I’m pointing out a) why freedom of speech is ALLOWED – that’s right, allowed – in the USA, and why it probably won’t be allowed in the same degree in China any time soon.

“In China, people would be out in the streets in a millisecond if they knew they would not be arrested, millions of them.”

That’s exactly right, and that’s exactly why it’s not going to happen in our lifetime. So put the pipe down and get real. Sure, in a perfect world everyone would be free to tell the government to fuck off, and the government would listen. But, um, look around you. Look at the horrible events that take place every goddamn day that are reported on right here on this blog. ‘Hey, let’s just lift censorship and make it all go away! Gee, if only Xi Jinping would read my comments, there would be real change!’

“Remember the huge protests in the US 3 years ago of Hispanic workers? They are getting their amnesty bill here in a couple months, so the government is responsive. Remember the Occupy protesters? They have had effects in multiple areas.”

You’re an idiot. The only “change” that happens in response to protests are scraps and lip service, the bare minimum that the government has to do to get people feel like they accomplished something. Then they go back to their jobs and their television sets until the next fashionable cause gets them off their asses. Rinse and repeat. Nothing important actually gets done or changes. You think the Mexicans have it all sorted out now? Or the banks? Haha, please. The banks get more blatant with their criminal activity by the day.

I agree with you 100% that China would be way better off with freedom of speech and a free press, but I’m not going to act like I and my home country are so superior because we were smart enough to have implemented those rights. Open your eyes and you’ll see that all countries are playing the same fucking game, they’re just in different positions on the board.

And this: “The reason people are allowed to go into the streets and protest about the shitty government but don’t in the US is basically because the government isn’t that shitty. In China, the government really is that shitty, that’s a pretty big difference.”
This (almost verbatim) is something I say to people all time because it’s true. It’s like the flag burning controversy in the USA; the reason you wouldn’t want to burn the flag is because you can.

No body is saying the US is flawless but there is a qualitative difference with China. I also have a lot of sympathy for Chomsky and I admire the shit out of Assange, but let’s not try to replace one idealistic political utopia with another.

But, I don’t know what your point is. The reason people are allowed to go into the streets and protest about the shitty government but don’t in the US is basically because the government isn’t that shitty. In China, the government really is that shitty, that’s a pretty big difference.

In China, people would be out in the streets in a millisecond if they knew they would not be arrested, millions of them. The government is scared shitless of the people because they know that rage is right below the surface and could erupt at any time. And they create more rage with their policies and their actions all the time. Winning!

Remember the huge protests in the US 3 years ago of Hispanic workers? They are getting their amnesty bill here in a couple months, so the government is responsive. Remember the Occupy protesters? They have had effects in multiple areas.

In China one protest means people imprisoned and maybe tortured and no change in government policies except more repression. Pls stop with the false equivalence.

“The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be “free” because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free.

In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/dec/03/julian-assange-wikileaks

Then, either freedom of speech goes or the government goes.

The two are fundamentally at odds with one another and cannot coexist.

Either one or the other has to go. It’s that simple.

Premier Wen needs to be shut away then.