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	<title>Comments on: Did Ken Livingstone Crony and Anti-Occupy Spokesman John Ross “Censor” the Global Times?</title>
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	<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/</link>
	<description>A Dollop of China</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2019 17:42:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: DerekF</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-413127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DerekF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-413127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[George Magnus? Have you asked him whether or not he considers you a credible antagonist? He never has, you know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George Magnus? Have you asked him whether or not he considers you a credible antagonist? He never has, you know.</p>
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		<title>By: DerekF</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-413126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DerekF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-413126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;ve been using the quote by capitalist investment banker, Gavyn Davis, for quite a long time as the only favorable citation you can muster, but  at the time he told me that he knew very little about your blog except that it seemed credible and was one of the few blogs out there on the Chinese economy. Now he dismisses you altogether as anything other than a clown. Have you tried to get a fresher opinion from him, and if you do, will you cite it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve been using the quote by capitalist investment banker, Gavyn Davis, for quite a long time as the only favorable citation you can muster, but  at the time he told me that he knew very little about your blog except that it seemed credible and was one of the few blogs out there on the Chinese economy. Now he dismisses you altogether as anything other than a clown. Have you tried to get a fresher opinion from him, and if you do, will you cite it?</p>
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		<title>By: RhZ</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-310879</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RhZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2014 13:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-310879</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, his justification is quite feeble, and I am sure the benefits he has received quite outweigh any value he has provided.

At least now, when his reputation is somewhere near the septic tank.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, his justification is quite feeble, and I am sure the benefits he has received quite outweigh any value he has provided.</p>
<p>At least now, when his reputation is somewhere near the septic tank.</p>
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		<title>By: LOL</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-308866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LOL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2014 12:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-308866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First of all, I have to point out that even as a Chinese I have rarely seen such all-positive remarks on China’s economy made by domestic experts. And it seems that as a foreigner with high professionalism, Mr. Ross is really of a befriended kind of attitude towards our nation, to which we are appreciated. But, how much honesty lies here remains a suspicion. I searched that GT article mentioned, its contents comprise almost half of Mr. Ross quotes, of course, complimentary generally. Chinese people love to hear those of course, especially from a respectable expert. And from this respect, China is really a lucrative land as long as you know when to say what.
Although he denied that and tried to justify himself by claiming that he was a victim from suppression of information and selective quotation, did he aware how feeble the justification was in front of the benefits all around he has gained in China.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, I have to point out that even as a Chinese I have rarely seen such all-positive remarks on China’s economy made by domestic experts. And it seems that as a foreigner with high professionalism, Mr. Ross is really of a befriended kind of attitude towards our nation, to which we are appreciated. But, how much honesty lies here remains a suspicion. I searched that GT article mentioned, its contents comprise almost half of Mr. Ross quotes, of course, complimentary generally. Chinese people love to hear those of course, especially from a respectable expert. And from this respect, China is really a lucrative land as long as you know when to say what.<br />
Although he denied that and tried to justify himself by claiming that he was a victim from suppression of information and selective quotation, did he aware how feeble the justification was in front of the benefits all around he has gained in China.</p>
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		<title>By: jixiang</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-307882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jixiang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2014 02:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-307882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some questions are most certainly not trivial. For instance, would the Chinese economy not have grown at a comparable speed even under a more democratic political system? And are all those people who&#039;ve been lifted out of poverty (ie. they now have an income higher than 1$ a day. It might be 5$ a day, and they might still be living in filthy, polluted hellhole) really happier and better off because of it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some questions are most certainly not trivial. For instance, would the Chinese economy not have grown at a comparable speed even under a more democratic political system? And are all those people who&#8217;ve been lifted out of poverty (ie. they now have an income higher than 1$ a day. It might be 5$ a day, and they might still be living in filthy, polluted hellhole) really happier and better off because of it?</p>
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		<title>By: John Ross</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-307266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 02:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-307266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Compared to China taking 630 million people out of poverty most things are trivial]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compared to China taking 630 million people out of poverty most things are trivial</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jixiang</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-307251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jixiang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2014 01:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-307251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems like your reply to every argument about China is simply: &quot;China lifted 630 million people out of poverty. Everything else is trivial&quot;.

You claimed that there is more freedom to discuss economic issues in China than in the West. FOARP rightly pointed out that this is untrue. However many people have been &quot;lifted out of poverty&quot; in China, it doesn&#039;t excuse making untrue statements of this sort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like your reply to every argument about China is simply: &#8220;China lifted 630 million people out of poverty. Everything else is trivial&#8221;.</p>
<p>You claimed that there is more freedom to discuss economic issues in China than in the West. FOARP rightly pointed out that this is untrue. However many people have been &#8220;lifted out of poverty&#8221; in China, it doesn&#8217;t excuse making untrue statements of this sort.</p>
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		<title>By: John Ross</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-306495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2014 01:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-306495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@FOARP

Can you please read articles you are supposed to be defending before you write them - it will lead to fewer mistakes. There is no discussion, not one word, of whether I can  speak Chinese in the Global Times article.

As for the claim I have pretended I can speak Chinese this is risible. This is my weibo on 30 April 2012 (two and a half years ago) and repeated since : &quot;No i don&#039;t have a ghost writer. All the English words are by me. But I have to use an interpreter to translate into Chinese&quot; Do you attempt to conceal something by posting it online in front of millions of people and when I have more than 200,000 followers on weibo myself?

Naturally when akaDashan said I had written something I had not written I had it checked - as I very frequently discuss in great detail with translators. I know I use very high quality native Chinese speaking interpreters but I initially read it myself using translation software for overall sense. I carefully checked with the original interpreter to make sure there was no ambiguity in Chinese which meant it said what akaDashan said. I then sent it to two other native Chinese language interpreters - being careful not to inform them of the opinion of anyone else. They both confirmed the Chinese did not say what akaDashan said. 

akaDashan is well known to have outstanding Chinese language abilities for someone not Chinese. But if three native language Chinese interpreters independently say in this case it did not say what he said that is clear. 

The Global Times article did however merely quote a right wing Observer political columnist on my economic writing rather than material I have already quoted at length. That is what is known in journalism as a cheap hatchet job. For why it was a cheap hatchet job please read my earlier responses.

I am well aware that when my economic analysis is shown to be more accurate than other peoples an attempt is made to try to change the subject - so I have been through this process before.

But I repeat, please read what you are attempting to defend before writing and you will make fewer errors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@FOARP</p>
<p>Can you please read articles you are supposed to be defending before you write them &#8211; it will lead to fewer mistakes. There is no discussion, not one word, of whether I can  speak Chinese in the Global Times article.</p>
<p>As for the claim I have pretended I can speak Chinese this is risible. This is my weibo on 30 April 2012 (two and a half years ago) and repeated since : &#8220;No i don&#8217;t have a ghost writer. All the English words are by me. But I have to use an interpreter to translate into Chinese&#8221; Do you attempt to conceal something by posting it online in front of millions of people and when I have more than 200,000 followers on weibo myself?</p>
<p>Naturally when akaDashan said I had written something I had not written I had it checked &#8211; as I very frequently discuss in great detail with translators. I know I use very high quality native Chinese speaking interpreters but I initially read it myself using translation software for overall sense. I carefully checked with the original interpreter to make sure there was no ambiguity in Chinese which meant it said what akaDashan said. I then sent it to two other native Chinese language interpreters &#8211; being careful not to inform them of the opinion of anyone else. They both confirmed the Chinese did not say what akaDashan said. </p>
<p>akaDashan is well known to have outstanding Chinese language abilities for someone not Chinese. But if three native language Chinese interpreters independently say in this case it did not say what he said that is clear. </p>
<p>The Global Times article did however merely quote a right wing Observer political columnist on my economic writing rather than material I have already quoted at length. That is what is known in journalism as a cheap hatchet job. For why it was a cheap hatchet job please read my earlier responses.</p>
<p>I am well aware that when my economic analysis is shown to be more accurate than other peoples an attempt is made to try to change the subject &#8211; so I have been through this process before.</p>
<p>But I repeat, please read what you are attempting to defend before writing and you will make fewer errors.</p>
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		<title>By: FOARP</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-306156</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOARP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 12:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-306156</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Being translated is not the same as ‘ghost written’.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Indeed it is not. This may shock you, John, but amongst the myriad differences between you and Goethe in terms of talent and learning, is the fact that Goethe never sought to lecture his fellow Germans on their poor English ability and pass off English-language commentary that he could not even understand as his own.  

In this case, what is going on IS ghost-writing since the Chinese-language output is (one hopes) not your own, due to the hateful and acist content it has included - including your talk of &#039;eggs&#039; and &#039;bananas&#039;. Your attempt to hide the fact that this was going on by getting it censored from the GT article, and pose as a Chinese-speaker by lecturing Dashan and the BBC (amongst many others) on Chinese, is the most shameful kind of hypocrisy.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot; I wrote in 1992, for example, an article stating that the economic reforms in China would be successful&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, along with a large body of other economists (including the growth projections put forward in The Economist, and reproduced in Paul Kennedy&#039;s 1987 book, &lt;i&gt;The Rise and Fall of Great Powers&lt;/i&gt;) you predicted China&#039;s economic growth. Well done. Now what exactly does this have to do with the accusation that you used your position to censored accurate reporting about yourself, reporting that included the statement (which you now admit was accurate) that you could not speak Chinese, and that you Chinese-language Weibo was written by your assistant?

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The reason I have supported the overall course of China’s economic policy is that China lifting 630 million people out of poverty is the greatest single contribution to human rights made by any country in the world&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You talk as though you were personally responsible for this. Again, the picture drawn in RFH&#039;s article of a hubristic egomaniac is confirmed, and the accuracy of his piece supported.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I am sorry but if 3 separate Chinese speakers confirm something was not said that is conclusive.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sorry, but if your assistant actually did write the phrase &quot;banana&quot; on your Weibo account, then I don&#039;t need a translator to tell me that you have been allowing racist and hateful language to go out under your by-line - but then I bothered to learn Chinese before giving opinions on it. 

Simple question John: If (as you now admit) the original GT piece was accurate in its portrayal of you as a non-Chinese speaker whose Chinese commentary is written for him by his assistant, why did you have it censored in the first place?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Being translated is not the same as ‘ghost written’.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed it is not. This may shock you, John, but amongst the myriad differences between you and Goethe in terms of talent and learning, is the fact that Goethe never sought to lecture his fellow Germans on their poor English ability and pass off English-language commentary that he could not even understand as his own.  </p>
<p>In this case, what is going on IS ghost-writing since the Chinese-language output is (one hopes) not your own, due to the hateful and acist content it has included &#8211; including your talk of &#8216;eggs&#8217; and &#8216;bananas&#8217;. Your attempt to hide the fact that this was going on by getting it censored from the GT article, and pose as a Chinese-speaker by lecturing Dashan and the BBC (amongst many others) on Chinese, is the most shameful kind of hypocrisy.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8221; I wrote in 1992, for example, an article stating that the economic reforms in China would be successful&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, along with a large body of other economists (including the growth projections put forward in The Economist, and reproduced in Paul Kennedy&#8217;s 1987 book, <i>The Rise and Fall of Great Powers</i>) you predicted China&#8217;s economic growth. Well done. Now what exactly does this have to do with the accusation that you used your position to censored accurate reporting about yourself, reporting that included the statement (which you now admit was accurate) that you could not speak Chinese, and that you Chinese-language Weibo was written by your assistant?</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The reason I have supported the overall course of China’s economic policy is that China lifting 630 million people out of poverty is the greatest single contribution to human rights made by any country in the world&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>You talk as though you were personally responsible for this. Again, the picture drawn in RFH&#8217;s article of a hubristic egomaniac is confirmed, and the accuracy of his piece supported.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I am sorry but if 3 separate Chinese speakers confirm something was not said that is conclusive.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but if your assistant actually did write the phrase &#8220;banana&#8221; on your Weibo account, then I don&#8217;t need a translator to tell me that you have been allowing racist and hateful language to go out under your by-line &#8211; but then I bothered to learn Chinese before giving opinions on it. </p>
<p>Simple question John: If (as you now admit) the original GT piece was accurate in its portrayal of you as a non-Chinese speaker whose Chinese commentary is written for him by his assistant, why did you have it censored in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: King Tubby</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-306039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[King Tubby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-306039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John.
I know. I know.

Its a hard gig, but you have now been elevated to the Inner Circle.... Shaun Rein, Mitch Mosely, CDE, the HH posse, etc.

To be honest, I am really fucking envious.

My mum always told me I would be a failure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John.<br />
I know. I know.</p>
<p>Its a hard gig, but you have now been elevated to the Inner Circle&#8230;. Shaun Rein, Mitch Mosely, CDE, the HH posse, etc.</p>
<p>To be honest, I am really fucking envious.</p>
<p>My mum always told me I would be a failure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Justin Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-305998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Mitchell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 05:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-305998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Mark. Good to know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mark. Good to know.</p>
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		<title>By: Jusrin Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-305994</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jusrin Mitchell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 05:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-305994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Mark is entirely capable of answering my question on this own, thank you. It was not meant as a personal attack on you or your misguided views, btw. 

It was only a simple question regarding linguistics which he is entirely more capable of answering rather than yourself. The more you write, the more rope you give to hang yourself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mark is entirely capable of answering my question on this own, thank you. It was not meant as a personal attack on you or your misguided views, btw. </p>
<p>It was only a simple question regarding linguistics which he is entirely more capable of answering rather than yourself. The more you write, the more rope you give to hang yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Rowswell "Dashan"</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-305993</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Rowswell "Dashan"]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 05:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-305993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops, that&#039;s just a typo on my part.  Sorry.  Banana = yellow skin, white inside; egg = white skin, yellow inside.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, that&#8217;s just a typo on my part.  Sorry.  Banana = yellow skin, white inside; egg = white skin, yellow inside.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Ross</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-305930</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Ross]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 02:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-305930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Justin Mitchell

I think Mark made a mistake. My understanding is that they have the original meaning you referred to in the 1970s in Korea, Thailand, China etc]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Justin Mitchell</p>
<p>I think Mark made a mistake. My understanding is that they have the original meaning you referred to in the 1970s in Korea, Thailand, China etc</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Justin Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://beijingcream.com/2014/10/ken-livingstone-crony-ccp-spokesman-john-ross-censor-the-global-times/#comment-305922</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Mitchell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2014 01:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beijingcream.com/?p=25726#comment-305922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark (Dashan)I agree with what you&#039;ve written here but have a simple question regarding banana and egg. I&#039;m an older American with some experience living and working in China, HK, Korea and Thailand. When I was in my 20s in the &#039;70&#039;s in the US banana and egg in a racial context meant the reverse: banana a yellow skin and white heart. Egg was a person with white skin and Asian heart. 

Do you or any others know when and why the meanings flipped, or was it just a US thing? I&#039;m no expert but fascinated by linguistic turns, twists and travels. 
Thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark (Dashan)I agree with what you&#8217;ve written here but have a simple question regarding banana and egg. I&#8217;m an older American with some experience living and working in China, HK, Korea and Thailand. When I was in my 20s in the &#8217;70&#8242;s in the US banana and egg in a racial context meant the reverse: banana a yellow skin and white heart. Egg was a person with white skin and Asian heart. </p>
<p>Do you or any others know when and why the meanings flipped, or was it just a US thing? I&#8217;m no expert but fascinated by linguistic turns, twists and travels.<br />
Thank you.</p>
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