So much for that newly issued Chinese tourism etiquette guidebook.
Remember? That 64-page thing released by the National Tourism Administration in China, supposed to go into effect on October 1?
This parent and child — which the website Coconuts Hong Kong says are from the mainland – must have missed the memo, because the child sure appears to be urinating in public. Give him some credit though: at least it’s into a trash bin.
This was taken inside a subway station in Hong Kong right in front of a sign that appears to say “No Peeing.” (I can’t tell for certain, but wouldn’t it be great if really was a “No Peeing” sign?)
Is this better or worse than the iPee boy in the Hong Kong Apple store?
The tourism guidebook may need updating already.
Piss and Tell: Golden Week tourists in all their glory (Coconuts Hong Kong)
“” (I can’t tell for certain, but wouldn’t it be great if really was a “No Peeing” sign?)”
No, it would be F’n depressing if we actually needed that sign.
Well, we have done this with our son when he was 2 to 3 years old. There are no toilets in MTR stations located on HK Island or Kowloon. A historical legacy. You have to make allowances for young kids, they cannot control their bladder so well. Who as a parent has not had to let their kid pee in the gutter when out and about raise their hand. Fee if any I bet.
for kids of age that can’t control their bladder that well, embrace the concept of diapers. whats a LV bag and cartier jewelry worth when you give your kid a lift to make public places dirty ignoring completely the idea of compassion for your interpersonal environment? the great china paradoxon.
not that the mtr cleaning personnel likes to handle garbage bags that drip piss.
“for kids of age that can’t control their bladder that well, embrace the concept of diapers”
LMAO. For a second I thought you were giving away a multibillion dollar idea, then I realized, “Oh yeah, they already make those, and have done for decades.”
WTF, China? For a country that’s comfortable commuting with a fist of TP in your briefcase, you’re seriously dropping the ball here. If you love your kids, spend the extra 3毛 a day on diapers. Seriously.
Morale of story – “Mainland born Chinese kids have relatively anaemic bladders – compared to all other Chinese in the world”. I been to Hong Kong,Taiwan,Singapore,Malaysia, etc etc, and never come into contact, or even heard about kids pissing or pooing in public places with the frequency of their cousins in the great motherland.
Our son did not wear diapers specifically to avoid nappy rash and speed up there potty training. It worked, the downside of course was that we had to know where all the toilets were, and as I said on the MTR there are no toilets. We did use diapers when we knew we would have a long journey without toilets, sometimes you get caught out.
Well I think it is related to culture yes, In China public toilets are few and far between, while a good number of restaurants and shops point blank refuse entry unless you are a customer, even with a small child in tow. So the great masses have no option sometime and are conditioned to this assumption when abroad. This will change over time I think.
One of the most insightful things I learned from a Japanese friend is that “when we are overseas, we regard ourselves as representative of our country, as we are probably under a microscope, and therefore take great care not to bring disrespect and shame to Japan.”. Ironic, for a country thats labelled as a deragatory “Xiao Nippon” (little Japan) by the inhabitants of the Middle Kingdom, the little Japanese practise whats common sense, while the smug Chinese let their bumpkins bring disrepute to their country overseas.
Bullshit. Total bullshit.
China has way more public toilets than any place I have visited. Try finding a place to piss in any other major city without going to a hotel or a mall.
Diapers do not cause nappy rash. Asshole parents who don’t change their children or use the right ointment cause nappy rash.
Not using diapers does not speed up potty training. It teaches children that they can piss and shit wherever they want whenever they want and they go into adulthood with this ingrained in them. Using diapers until the child can control their bladder teaches children to hold it till they are at an appropriate place and teaches them to communicate better with their parents.
My 4 year old daughter used diapers till she didn’t need to anymore and never had a case of nappy rash, I have never once needed to let her piss or shit in public.
Chinese people need to be taught that this is unacceptable. Imagine being the trash collector who pulls out that bag and is instantly covered in piss.
And don’t start about the environment either, we used only cloth diapers, they are inexpensive and much better for all involved.
Well I love a good debate, particularly on the pointless subject of which parenting style is best.
“China has way more public toilets than any place I have visited. Try finding a place to piss in any other major city without going to a hotel or a mall”.
I don’t know where you have been in China but it is likely limited to the 1st tier cities and I suspect you have only wandered round the more developed areas of these places.
“Diapers do not cause nappy rash. Asshole parents who don’t change their children or use the right ointment cause nappy rash”. Yep accept that point.
“Not using diapers does not speed up potty training. It teaches children that they can piss and shit wherever they want whenever they want and they go into adulthood with this ingrained in them”.
Are you a child psychologist in your day job. So I read from your statement that basically our son’s future is ruined because he did not wear nappies. He will be an impulsive wastral intent on fulfilling his every whim without due regard for his fellow man. I weep with regret. In our case he was going to the toilet on his own just shy of his 2 year birthday. Anecdotal evidence points in a different direction http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22445847 . In my opinion many parents keep their kids in diapers too long for their own convenience not there kids comfort or development. They cannot be bothered with the need to rush to find a toilet for their youngster and would rather have them pee their pants and wait.
“Using diapers until the child can control their bladder teaches children to hold it till they are at an appropriate place and teaches them to communicate better with their parents”.
I do not follow the logic, how does placing a receptacle designed to catch all, encourage a kid to hold on until the reach a toilet? Is it the thought of having a wet slimy clammy bottom that prompts the heroic retention. I am amazed that wearing such devices also improves parent child communication. This is clearly jealously guarded secret. Again such regret that my son will not be able to fully communicate with his parents all because he did not wear a nappy. Rather my son is quite rapid in telling me he needs the toilet and then we go look for a toilet. If we are out hiking he pees in the bushes though, the horror!
“My 4 year old daughter used diapers till she didn’t need to anymore and never had a case of nappy rash, I have never once needed to let her piss or shit in public”.
A job well done.
“Chinese people need to be taught that this is unacceptable. Imagine being the trash collector who pulls out that bag and is instantly covered in piss”.
This is the only thing you have said that makes any sense. Though you might like to reflect on your general stereotyping. It is not all Chinese people, HK people might object, it is not all mainlanders either, it is a sub-set that behave in this manner and in some instances they have no choice.
“It is not all Chinese people, HK people might object”
Are you trying to lump the HKers in with Mainland Chinese? That’s… curious. Not until 2047, my friend. I’m sure China will have developed greatly by that time.
completely agree !!!!
“… the great masses have no option sometime and are conditioned to this assumption when abroad. This will change over time I think.”
Nappy rash? This problem has already been solved. They’re called Diapers. End of Story. Only a world-class narcissist would teach their kids that it’s okay to take a dump in public because ‘Someone in blue coveralls will come and clean it up’
You should have read Mom’s post first she already covered all the bases on the benefits of nappies. Not only do they catch outputs but they boost communication, teach fortitude and social responsibility. Just goes to show that you are always learning, particularly on Beijing Cream.
No, Dawei. The issue is not about nappies, diaper rash & what not. Its about common civility. I have two children – one wore diapers till he was year and a bit, and the younger was off it at 6 months (except when she goes out with us). Neither of them pee – poo in public,period. Why ? Its not the acceptable norm. If you talk to Chinese who are in the middle – upper crust, they feel its a disgrace that their fellow bumpkin country persons let their children discharge so blatantly in public, be it overseas or on native soil.
I was initially responding to Mom’s op-ed. My original point was that in the MTR there are NO toilets and thus if you have young children who are not wearing nappies you can get caught out. We need to try to make some allowances for mainlanders when they are here, sure what some of them do is impolite given local norms, but not all of them behave in this way. Some of them do the things they do because they do not know any better, this is called ignorance and not willful malice on their part. Some do things because they have no choice e.g caught short on the MTR with young kid in tow. You can argue all you want that they should have come prepared but they did not because they do not know. As I mentioned before things will change as awareness spreads. China has improved in leaps and bounds over the last 20 years. I remember the football scrums, with jabbing elbows, the push and shove to get to the front of train ticket ques in Guangzhou, those were the days. Now we have fairly ordered ques in even quiet backwaters.
I think the issue is far larger than “common civility” what ever that is. The issue in Hong Kong is one of anxiety over the threats to local culture, job, housing, education and amenities that the influx of new wealthy mainlanders bring to Hong Kong. The media and blogosphere pounce on any evidence of the wrong doing of a mainlander here. Even the other day the blogosphere was gloating over the tragic death of a young well educated mainland woman who was run over and killed by a truck here. She was a top graduate from her province and came to HK to do her masters, worked in finance and no doubt paid more tax than most here, contributing to the overall growth and wealth of Hong Kong.
Also give up on stereotypes. You mentioned previously your Japanese friend’s masterly command of common sense. Yet there are numerous cases of Japanese not following local customs. http://www.japancrush.com/2012/stories/tv-cook-ashamed-of-being-japanese-after-seeing-sign-in-uk.html .
I don’t know anyone in the middle to upper crust as I have no idea what you mean by this, but I do know some human beings, and the ones I know very well to the ones I have met in passing vary quite a lot. For example, some know that spitting is quit impolite and some enjoy a good gob. I suppose those that are more “polite” tend to have a higher education and are more aware of the wider world or have travelled around outside China.
This is the best blog fight I have seen on this site in awhile. Dawei, I don’t think you can necessarily win this particular battle, but you fought the good fight, bravo to you.
Mike, any points you scored were set up by Mom, by softening Dawei up. So you are going to have to share those, sorry about that.
Mom, I promise I will call soon. Say hi to Dad for me.
Da Wei is not worth fighting with. He is a China apologist. One of those fucking laowai who go around “embracing the Chinese culture” even if that culture is wrong and stupid. I bet he only drinks hot water and gets cupping while blowing snot out of his nose and eating bitter melon because it makes his penis stronger.
Thank you, glad to know you enjoyed the spat. Though is seems that Mom has now left the field but not without a few parting shots.
Apparently I am a “China Apologist” has used the term correctly. An apologist is someone who argues to defend an idea, doctrine, action or belief and so on. I don’t recall stating that peeing and pooping in pubic is the correct thing to do, or argue the aesthetic benefits of steaming piles of manure on the street and how we should all be doing it. Rather I argued that most of this out door toiletry stems from ignorance, that things are getting better and that it will all be solved in time. To frame this in something more familiar to a western reader, a “Christian Apologist” uses argument to justify Christianity, they do not argue that we will get over Christianity in a few years.
Mom then goes on to label me a “fucking laowai who goes around “embracing the Chinese culture” even if that culture is wrong and stupid.” Mom has gone from the specific to the general, in logic this is called a “Hasty Generalization.” Mom has no idea on my opinion on any of the other aspects of Chinese culture, attitudes, politics and so on. She took the faulty premise that I approval of kids peeing in the street then inferred I must also approve of everything in China, regardless of such things intrinsic merit. Quite a leap.
I am also leaving the field as I have better things to do with my time, as I am sure we all have. Have a good day, that includes you Mom.
Dear god, you are so boring. Wah wah wah. STFU
Dawei is a long winded apologist in his own definition. So are all the left wingers who still slavishly “apologize” for Mao, Islamists who “apologize” for the crazies who bomb (mostly) their own kind to expel the infidel invaders, yada yada yada.
No civility means no civility. Period.